Page 41 - All About History - Issue 72-18

Elizabeth vs Mary
contribution, apart from looking at Mary in terms
of queenship, to see her as a successful queen
rather than a failed queen and assess what James
did and why as a consequence of that everything
went wrong for her. you think Mary’s death set a precedent,
Do you believe that Mary could have
kept her throne?
I think she could have kept her throne. After the
death of her husband there was kind of an easy
peace and things had settled down.
However, with Bothwell abducting and raping
her, followed by their marriage,itreallywasthe
end. It is a complicated question because
if he hadn’t abducted and
raped Mary then someone else “The fact that
probably would have done and
that brought her down. you can put a
I do think that at the end
when she is imprisoned at queen on trial
Loch Leven and she escapes,
Mary could have gotten power and execute her
back since her half-brother was
unpopular and there was a lot
of dislike for him. means that she is
Unfortunately, she made the
fatal error of going into England a mortal”
and trying to throw herself
at Elizabeth to seek her help, which was a big
mistake! Elizabeth didn’t want to get her throne
back for her and really felt that she couldn’t
because it would result in a long and difficult
war against James in Scotland. used to doing what they wanted for a long time
Cecil always saw Mary as a threat
and he did a lot to undermine her
relationship with Elizabeth. If he hadn’t
interfered as much as he did, do you
think Elizabeth could have done more
to help her?
I think certainly Cecil did persuade Elizabeth
not to help. She had sympathy for Mary and felt
strongly that queens should be protected, but
Cecil obviously thought Mary was part of the
Catholic threat. Most of all, I think, is the fact
that Elizabeth felt that if she executed Mary, she
would undermine the specialness of all queens
and that was a strong consideration with her –
but I don’t think Cecil minded the specialness
of all queens. He was happy that the state
progressed the more Elizabeth lost power, and
I think that definitely both him and parliament
supported the decline of monarchical power.
They were happy for Elizabeth to be there but
they also undermined her and went behind
her back. I do think that Cecil was particularly
instrumental about undermining Mary and she
even said, “I see you are my enemy.”
If Elizabeth completely had her way, Mary
would have had more support but certainly
Cecil’s terror was that he always felt that
Elizabeth didn’t understand the Scottish threat
and that she just didn’t see it.
Elizabeth feared that undermining their life or they know the person – Mary went
queenship or the authority of a with Bothwell because she trusted him, he had
monarch would mean that she too many more men, and she believed he would
could potentially lose her throne. Do look after her.
Before,wemighthavesaid‘wellwhatdid
considering that King Charles I was she thinkwasgoingtohappen?’.Butnowwe
executed the following century? wouldsaythatMarytrustedhim,thatyouhave
I definitely think it set a precedent in every to trustpeople,andthatbecauseBothwelltook
way and that was Elizabeth’s fear, that it did everythingfromher,shefeltshehadnochoice
set a precedent for undermining the monarchy. but tomarryhim.IdothinkthatalthoughMe
The fact that you can put a queen on trial and Too is a modern movement, there were people in
execute her means that she is a mortal rather the periodthatdidunderstandthiswenton,that
than a divine ruler and if you can take away her men would groom or capture women, get them
power, then you can keep on in thewrongpositionandthenexploitthem.
doing it. I think it opens the I thinkwedoneedaperspectiveonsexual
door for what happens with assaultinhistory,onethatrecogniseshowitwas
Charles I and I think Elizabeth seen back then.
knew that as well. Everyone agreed that Mary was raped, I mean
she saidit,themenaroundhersaidit,even
In many ways, the two Bothwell said it! They all agreed it happened but
queens were similar – so it is interesting that since then, there has been
why did Elizabeth succeed this argument that it didn’t happen because she
and Mary didn’t? didn’t scream her head off when it happened.
I think there are two reasons. You know it is funny that sometimes we are
Elizabeth was surrounded by told that rape cannot be prosecuted because it
men that she had built up as is her wordagainsthis,shesaidshewasraped
loyal in her teenage years while whilehesaysitwasconsensualbutinMary’s
Mary was sent to France where case, shesaidhedidit,hesaidhediditandso
she had no one, no men to protect her, and she did everybodyelse,andstillshewasn’tbelieved.
did not have that circle of male friends to build Why notbelieveher?Ithinknowwearehaving
up. The other reason is that it was just such a a big change around believing people and not
different country, the lords in Scotland had been blamingthem,whichisreallyimportant,butwe
have alongwaytogo.
and there was a lot of long-living feuds that went
way back. There was also a lot more violence, I
mean with Elizabeth they tried to undermine her
by not telling her things and holding meetings
without her, but they never would have dreamt
of trying to kidnap her or trying to rape her, they
just wouldn’t have done.
Yet there are people trying to kidnap Mary
from the beginning so I think they were clearly
two very different countries. To all the men
around Mary, even though she was a great
queen, even though she was royal and rich
and much taller than them, she was still just a
woman and they could reduce her in the same
way that they could reduce all women.
In Rival Queens, you offer a new,
modern perspective on Mary rather
than the complicit queen, responsible
for her own downfall, or the victim of
the machinations of those around her.
Do you think this is long overdue?
I think it is, we are reassessing sexual assault
now – once upon a time it seemed to be the case
that you could only get a conviction if it had
been a stranger that you had never met before
or saw again, who used violence and you fought
back. Now, we are increasingly recognising that Rival Queens: The Betrayal of Mary, Queen
in a lot of sexual assaults women freeze or they of Scots is out now from Hutchinson,
don’t fight back because they want to preserve Penguin Random House
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